First impressions of MuseScore

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
13 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

First impressions of MuseScore

David Bolton-2
I just found out about MuseScore a few days ago. It is wonderful to see
a well-developed free software scorewriter for Windows. I plan to use
the software with my students at school.

Originally I was taking notes of things the students might have
difficulties with, but it turning to a more expansive review and quasi
bug report that may have value for the developers of MuseScore. The
issues and attractions I encountered in my first three days using
MuseScore are available online:

"First Impressions of MuseScore"
http://davidbolton.info/articles/musescore_review.html

--
David Bolton


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: First impressions of MuseScore

Thomas Bonte
Administrator
Hi David,

I'm impressed with your review and excited to hear that you will be using MuseScore with your students.
And thinking about these new potential users, I wonder how MuseScore could get their feedback as well.

For now, you might just list up all the issues that you encounter with your students and publish that on your website, but I think you will agree that after some time, it will be hard for the development team to track all the outstanding issues. I wonder now whether you have ideas on how you can/will encourage your students to post issues themselves.

For the moment there is this mailing list and the SF issue tracker. The tracker is not being used because the interface & user experience is just really bad.  The mailing list could work, but it has major barriers for users to actually subscribe and post messages. It's more a development communication channel.

I've been discussing this with Werner before and with the 1.0 release in reach, it might be interesting to think how we can facilitate communication between users and developers. Of course, we don't have to reinvent the wheel and just look at other software projects. An example is http://www.ubercart.org/

The Ubercart website is build on the Drupal CMS and has all the functionality that is necessary for a communication between all end users and developers: a forum, an issue tracker, documentation (wiki) and news letters. More functionality is not required and should be avoided (featuritis).

Currently the MuseScore project has no personal website (musescore.org) but using Drupal, an initial setup could easily be done in a couple of days. I'm willing to spend some time on that.

But before doing so, I would like to know from you whether you see your students actually using this website: <ul>
<li>would they use the forum for asking 'how to' questions?</li>
<li>would they subscribe on the newsletter or the RSS feed for tracking the latest improvements?</li>
<li>perhaps some of them would even file issues in the tracker?</li>
</ul>
What do you think?
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: First impressions of MuseScore

Toby Smithe-2
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 10:45 AM, Thomas Bonte <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>  Hi David,
>
>  I'm impressed with  http://davidbolton.info/articles/musescore_review.html
>  your review  and excited to hear that you will be using MuseScore with your
>  students.
>  And thinking about these new potential users, I wonder how MuseScore could
>  get their feedback as well.
>
>  For now, you might just list up all the issues that you encounter with your
>  students and publish that on your website, but I think you will agree that
>  after some time, it will be hard for the development team to track all the
>  outstanding issues. I wonder now whether you have ideas on how you can/will
>  encourage your students to post issues themselves.
>
>  For the moment there is this mailing list and the SF issue tracker. The
>  tracker is not being used because the interface & user experience is just
>  really bad.  The mailing list could work, but it has major barriers for
>  users to actually subscribe and post messages. It's more a development
>  communication channel.

Launchpad!! :-)  Makes linking between bug trackers a lot easier, and
it's very cool to keep track of everything in one place.  Plus, I
really think they've got the bug tracker polished quite well.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Help to expand the MuseScore article on Wikipedia

Thomas Bonte
Administrator
In reply to this post by David Bolton-2
As David noted in his review on MuseSore, there is no Wikipedia page yet for MuseScore.

All you who read this and are happy MuseScore users, feel free to expand the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MuseScore

Currently the article is queued for deletion because 'not notable'. With a couple of edits, we can make sure MuseScore has finally its own page in Wikipedia. Edit it now!
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: First impressions of MuseScore

David Bolton-2
In reply to this post by Thomas Bonte
Thomas,

I teach general education music for Kindergarten through 8th Grade. I
will be using MuseScore with the middle school students (12-14 year
olds) but probably not to the extent that they will need a forum or
issue tracker. However some of the more serious music students might be
interested in this--especially if they install the software on a home
computer. I will certainly let them know the developers are interesting
in any feedback from them. Your commitment to the user base is commendable.

David


Thomas Bonte wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> I'm impressed with  http://davidbolton.info/articles/musescore_review.html
> your review  and excited to hear that you will be using MuseScore with your
> students.
> And thinking about these new potential users, I wonder how MuseScore could
> get their feedback as well.
>
> For now, you might just list up all the issues that you encounter with your
> students and publish that on your website, but I think you will agree that
> after some time, it will be hard for the development team to track all the
> outstanding issues. I wonder now whether you have ideas on how you can/will
> encourage your students to post issues themselves.
>
> For the moment there is this mailing list and the SF issue tracker. The
> tracker is not being used because the interface & user experience is just
> really bad.  The mailing list could work, but it has major barriers for
> users to actually subscribe and post messages. It's more a development
> communication channel.
>
> I've been discussing this with Werner before and with the 1.0 release in
> reach, it might be interesting to think how we can facilitate communication
> between users and developers. Of course, we don't have to reinvent the wheel
> and just look at other software projects. An example is
> http://www.ubercart.org/
>
> The Ubercart website is build on the  http://drupal.org Drupal  CMS and has
> all the functionality that is necessary for a communication between all end
> users and developers: a forum, an issue tracker, documentation (wiki) and
> news letters. More functionality is not required and should be avoided (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Featuritis featuritis ).
>
> Currently the MuseScore project has no personal website (musescore.org) but
> using Drupal, an initial setup could easily be done in a couple of days. I'm
> willing to spend some time on that.
>
> But before doing so, I would like to know from you whether you see your
> students actually using this website: <ul>
> <li>would they use the forum for asking 'how to' questions?</li>
> <li>would they subscribe on the newsletter or the RSS feed for tracking the
> latest improvements?</li>
> <li>perhaps some of them would even file issues in the tracker?</li>
> </ul>
> What do you think?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: First impressions of MuseScore

Thomas Bonte
Administrator
In reply to this post by Toby Smithe-2

Toby Smithe-2 wrote
Launchpad!! :-)  Makes linking between bug trackers a lot easier, and
it's very cool to keep track of everything in one place.  Plus, I
really think they've got the bug tracker polished quite well.
Toby, whats your feeling about the difference between launchpad and google code?

Since the musescore project is gaining daily some new users who might submit bugs & requests, it's time we try to solve the issue tracking question.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: First impressions of MuseScore

Toby Smithe-2
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 2:55 PM, Thomas Bonte <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> Toby Smithe-2 wrote:
>>
>> Launchpad!! :-)  Makes linking between bug trackers a lot easier, and
>> it's very cool to keep track of everything in one place.  Plus, I
>> really think they've got the bug tracker polished quite well.
>>
>
> Toby, whats your feeling about the difference between launchpad and google
> code?
>
> Since the musescore project is gaining daily some new users who might submit
> bugs & requests, it's time we try to solve the issue tracking question.

Google Code, from my point of view, is more a similar project to
SourceForge than to Launchpad. The unique advantage of Launchpad is
that it allows bugs to be linked between projects and distributions,
upstream and downstream, and to be tracked alongside specific code
branches. Code doesn't even have to be migrated to LP's bzr hosting:
it can happily import upstream vcs trees. LP also provides a separate
specification tracker, and a support forum.

However, one missing feature on comparison is the provision of a wiki,
though my opinion is that this is not such a problem in light of the
functionality of the tracker(s).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: First impressions of MuseScore

Thomas Bonte
Administrator

Toby Smithe-2 wrote
The unique advantage of Launchpad is that it allows bugs to be linked between projects and distributions, upstream and downstream, and to be tracked alongside specific code branches.
From what I've read so far, I understand that this upstream/downstream feature is the primary differentiator and it does seem well designed. On the other hand, this differentiator does not convince me to become a LP adept. It just feels like overkill (featuritis).

Toby Smithe-2 wrote
Code doesn't even have to be migrated to LP's bzr hosting: it can happily import upstream vcs trees. LP also provides a separate specification tracker, and a support forum.
I noticed that the vcs for musescore is currently in pending status (https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/musescore/trunk). What would need to be done to actually import it?

Toby Smithe-2 wrote
However, one missing feature on comparison is the provision of a wiki,
though my opinion is that this is not such a problem in light of the
functionality of the tracker(s).
A wiki might be handy just for documentation purposes. I don't see this being used for development purposes actually bc thats what the issue tracker is for. For the moment, MuseScore handles the documentation in the code repository as well. So, I concur, not such a problem.

My main question however goes to the adoption of the issue tracker. Almost everyone has a google account so becoming a member is real easy. Second, the google code interface is easier to use as well. It's a challenge to find your way through LP, even for a developer. But on the other hand, LP has rss feeds which I really miss with Google Code.

Last but not least, the SF tracker has been used a lot lately. A lot of new feature requests ect.
It's not clear yet to me what the best option would be.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: First impressions of MuseScore

Thomas Bonte
Administrator
Toby, since you are a LP user, perhaps you could tell us how MuseScore could use the LP translation system (https://translations.launchpad.net/musescore). Do you know how this works and integrates with the code repository?

This might influence to choice of the issue tracker a lot I guess. The adoption of MuseScore can depend a lot on the number of supported languages.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: First impressions of MuseScore

Toby Smithe-2
It's frustrating the Google Mail doesn't allow you to change subject
line halfway through a thread. This topic is about the MuseScore
notation project [0] and Launchpad.

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Thomas Bonte <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Toby, since you are a LP user, perhaps you could tell us how MuseScore could
> use the LP translation system
> (https://translations.launchpad.net/musescore). Do you know how this works
> and integrates with the code repository?

I'm not sure how translation works, but as I understand it, the
developers upload template files, and the Launchpad interface
generates po files from suggestions.

> This might influence to choice of the issue tracker a lot I guess. The
> adoption of MuseScore can depend a lot on the number of supported languages.

Indeed.

Many Ubuntu users are also familiar with the LP interface, which -
once you get used to it - makes a lot of sense; I find it to be far
more congenial than either the Google or SF.net facilities. URLs are a
lot prettier, too :)

If the project is interested in moving the issue tracker to Launchpad,
the LP developers/admins are very helpful in migrating data from
Google/SF as necessary. In fact, having thought that, I will CC the
launchpad-users mailing list.

On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 10:35 AM, Thomas Bonte <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I noticed that the vcs for musescore is currently in pending status
> (https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/musescore/trunk). What would need
> to be done to actually import it?

I'm not sure. I wonder if the LP people could check that out?

> My main question however goes to the adoption of the issue tracker. Almost
> everyone has a google account so becoming a member is real easy. Second, the
> google code interface is easier to use as well. It's a challenge to find
> your way through LP, even for a developer. But on the other hand, LP has rss
> feeds which I really miss with Google Code.

I'm sure people would be interested to hear your thoughts on the
difficulties of Launchpad :)


launchpad-users, could you CC replies, as I'm not subscribed to that
list, and I'm sure many other interested parties are neither.

[0] http://mscore.sourceforge.net

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: First impressions of MuseScore

(=?iso-8859-1?q?=60=60-=5F-=B4=B4?=) -- Fernando
Olá Toby e a todos.

On Wednesday 04 June 2008 18:21:40 Toby Smithe wrote:
> It's frustrating the Google Mail doesn't allow you to change subject
> line halfway through a thread. This topic is about the MuseScore
> notation project [0] and Launchpad.

Gmail does allow you to change the subject.
but since the headers are the same, it will still continue to group the thread.

Any email client that is able to do threading will that same grouping.

--
BUGabundo  :o)
(``-_-´´) http://Ubuntu.BUGabundo.net
Linux user #443786    GPG key 1024D/A1784EBB
My new micro-blog @ http://BUGabundo.net
ps. My emails tend to sound authority and aggressive. I'm sorry in advance. I'll try to be more assertive as time goes by...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer

signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: First impressions of MuseScore

Graham Binns
In reply to this post by Toby Smithe-2
Hi Toby,

I'm a member of the Launchpad Bug Tracker team. I'm responsible for
dealing with importing bugs from other trackers, so I wanted to chime in
on this thread about one of the things you mentioned below.

On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 06:21:40PM +0100, Toby Smithe wrote:
> If the project is interested in moving the issue tracker to Launchpad,
> the LP developers/admins are very helpful in migrating data from
> Google/SF as necessary. In fact, having thought that, I will CC the
> launchpad-users mailing list.
>

We'd be happy to help. The process of importing bugs from SourceForge is
actually pretty simple. We have a tool which we use to create an XML
file which Launchpad can then import. Once we've got that we can test it
on our demo Launchpad instance at http://demo.launchpad.net. Your team
can then check the imported bugs to ensure that they've been imported
correctly and that everything makes sense. Once that's done we can
import it into Launchpad proper.

The length of time the process takes varies depending on how many bugs
there are to import (according to SourceForge there are 56 bugs, 47
feature requests and 4 support requests for MuseScore, which should be
fairly quick to import) and on any changes that you feel may need making
to the imported data before we do the import to the production Launchpad
instance.

Please feel free to let me know if you've got any questions.

Cheers,

Graham

--
Graham Binns
http://launchpad.net/~gmb

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer

signature.asc (196 bytes) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: First impressions of MuseScore

Christian Robottom Reis-2
In reply to this post by Toby Smithe-2
On Wed, Jun 04, 2008 at 06:21:40PM +0100, Toby Smithe wrote:
> > I noticed that the vcs for musescore is currently in pending status
> > (https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/musescore/trunk). What would need
> > to be done to actually import it?
>
> I'm not sure. I wonder if the LP people could check that out?

I've approved it -- let's see what happens. :)

> > My main question however goes to the adoption of the issue tracker. Almost
> > everyone has a google account so becoming a member is real easy. Second, the
> > google code interface is easier to use as well. It's a challenge to find
> > your way through LP, even for a developer. But on the other hand, LP has rss
> > feeds which I really miss with Google Code.
>
> I'm sure people would be interested to hear your thoughts on the
> difficulties of Launchpad :)

Well, it's a bit challenging because it's deeeeeep. But if you just live
inside your own project -- i.e. launchpad.net/musescore -- and hang on
to the tabs, it's not /that/ overwhelming.
--
Christian Robottom Reis | http://async.com.br/~kiko/ | [+55 16] 3376 0125

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace.
It's the best place to buy or sell services for
just about anything Open Source.
http://sourceforge.net/services/buy/index.php
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer