Importing measure width from MusicXML

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Importing measure width from MusicXML

Leon Vinken
This is probably a question for Werner.

A pending issue (http://musescore.org/en/node/17121) requests import of more layout information from MusicXML, specifically the measure width. This would probably improve Finale input a lot, as the current algorithm handles the system breaks but not the measure width, which quite often results in "orphan" measures (a system incorrectly containing a single measure).

On the MusicXML import side this is trivial, the measure width is given explicitly. The question is how to handle this in MuseScores layout engine. As I don't know how to do this, a kind question to Werner: could you explain if this is doable at all, and if so, either provide the function to set measure width to be called by the MusicXML importer or explain how to do this (in which case I will try to implement it myself).

Regards, Leon.
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Re: Importing measure width from MusicXML

Maurizio M. Gavioli
Leon Vinken wrote
A pending issue (http://musescore.org/en/node/17121) requests import of more layout information from MusicXML, specifically the measure width.[...]

On the MusicXML import side this is trivial, the measure width is given explicitly. The question is how to handle this in MuseScores layout engine. As I don't know how to do this, a kind question to Werner: could you explain if this is doable at all, and if so, either provide the function to set measure width to be called by the MusicXML importer or explain how to do this (in which case I will try to implement it myself).
As far as I can tell, there is no such a concept as a 'hard' measure length in MuseScore: a length which can be set once for all and stick. Rather, measure width (or anything else width, for that matter) is dynamically computed from the layout parameters and the context; it is stored somewhere of course, but will be overwritten at the next layout pass.

Werner can for sure provide more details, but to me it doesn't seems what you are looking for could be done in MuseScore as it is now.

M.
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Re: Importing measure width from MusicXML

Leon Vinken
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I know, that is my understandng too. I am hoping Werner can help out. The only solution I came up with so far is tweaking the measure "stretch" value until the desired result is obtained. Once again, lack of familiarity with the finer details of the layout algorithm make it difficult for me to judge whether that would be feasable.

Regards, Leon.
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Re: Importing measure width from MusicXML

lasconic
Administrator
Hi,
I can confirm that currently it's not possible to enforce a measure width in MuseScore, since there is no way to deactivate the horizontal layouting.
After a short offlist discussion with Werner, we came to the conclusion that the best way to make this happen would be a way to "lock" some measures/pages, and to ignore them during relayout.
However, that would mean more UI, more code in the layout system. And as our current goal is to have a stable version of MuseScore 2.0 ASAP, meaning in the coming months... it doesn't feel a good idea to move this way.

Regarding the approach of using stretch, it looks hacky unfortunatly. A second pass after loading and layouting the score could verify that measures between two explicit line breaks are on the same line, and apply less strech until it's the case... but it may cause collision in the measures... It's not really satisfying, but I would postpone this feature request.

lasconic



2012/9/9 Leon Vinken <[hidden email]>
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I know, that is my understandng too. I am hoping
Werner can help out. The only solution I came up with so far is tweaking the
measure "stretch" value until the desired result is obtained. Once again,
lack of familiarity with the finer details of the layout algorithm make it
difficult for me to judge whether that would be feasable.

Regards, Leon.



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Re: Importing measure width from MusicXML

wschweer9
I think it is not possible to import a single MusicXml measure width. Depending on how MuseScore layout() decides on line breaking the measure may contain additional elements depending on the the position of the measure in the system. This are the system header (clef, key, time signature) a possible "start repeat" or cautionary elements in the last measure of a system.
So i believe its "all or nothing".  Either MusicXml decides on layout or MuseScore. A mix will give unexpected results. Another question is on how good the MusicXml design decisions can be without any knowledge of font properties.

On 10.09.2012 11:42, Lasconic wrote:
Hi,
I can confirm that currently it's not possible to enforce a measure width in MuseScore, since there is no way to deactivate the horizontal layouting.
After a short offlist discussion with Werner, we came to the conclusion that the best way to make this happen would be a way to "lock" some measures/pages, and to ignore them during relayout.
However, that would mean more UI, more code in the layout system. And as our current goal is to have a stable version of MuseScore 2.0 ASAP, meaning in the coming months... it doesn't feel a good idea to move this way.

Regarding the approach of using stretch, it looks hacky unfortunatly. A second pass after loading and layouting the score could verify that measures between two explicit line breaks are on the same line, and apply less strech until it's the case... but it may cause collision in the measures... It's not really satisfying, but I would postpone this feature request.

lasconic



2012/9/9 Leon Vinken <[hidden email]>
Thanks for your reply. Yes, I know, that is my understandng too. I am hoping
Werner can help out. The only solution I came up with so far is tweaking the
measure "stretch" value until the desired result is obtained. Once again,
lack of familiarity with the finer details of the layout algorithm make it
difficult for me to judge whether that would be feasable.

Regards, Leon.



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Re: Importing measure width from MusicXML

Leon Vinken
I am fine with postponing until after 2.0.

Modern MusicXML exporters typically export at least page size, measure width and system breaks, some also export fonts used and x position of notes. Currently MuseScores MusicXML import ignores all this except the system and page breaks. Typically this requires manually changing the measure stretch value after import to fit all measures in the systems. Import almost any Recordare MusicXML sample and this is immediately obvious.

It would be nice if MuseScore at least had the option to try to reasonably approach the layout as was meant by the exporter, without requiring manual intervention. In case the result looks bad (e.g. if font metrics are completely different) the user should be able to import without using the exported layout info (which is what MuseScore currently implements). The preference panel already provides a (currently unused) setting for this behavior.

If the MuseScore design makes it difficult to precisely import a given layout, a reasonable compromise might be to try to tweak the measure widths until the system breaks are correct. This is what I meant by changing the stretch value, as it emulates what you have to do in the GUI anyway to achieve this. Any other mechanism to achieve a reasonable approximation of the layout as exported would also be fine by me.

Leon.
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Re: Importing measure width from MusicXML

thinkr
In reply to this post by lasconic
Sorry to revive an old thread but it pertains exactly to my questions...
Thanks for any help in advance:)

2 Questions.

1. Has the feature of measure length from xml import been implemented now in 2.0.

I noticed there are so many settings in the Measure Debugger is it in there?

2. I was writing some sheet music and would like to know if its possible to have a setting to move a measure to the next line? While having the program auto layout and reformat the rest of the music and move the down the line until the measure fits?

It would be nice if this was a shortcut key.
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Re: Importing measure width from MusicXML

Marc Sabatella
Questions like this are better asked in the support forum on musescore.org (see "Help / Ask for Help" from within MuseScore doesn't really have a a way of setting a fixed measure width, so there would be no way I can think of for any MusicXML tag that specifies this to be interpreted.  As for moving a meassure to the enxt line, that's easy enough - just add a line break before the measure (and remove the one on the measure currently at the end of the system, if there is one).

Marc

On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 8:47 PM thinkr <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry to revive an old thread but it pertains exactly to my questions...
Thanks for any help in advance:)

2 Questions.

1. Has the feature of measure length from xml import been implemented now in
2.0.

I noticed there are so many settings in the Measure Debugger is it in there?

2. I was writing some sheet music and would like to know if its possible to
have a setting to move a measure to the next line? While having the program
auto layout and reformat the rest of the music and move the down the line
until the measure fits?

It would be nice if this was a shortcut key.



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RE: Importing measure width from MusicXML

thinkr
Thank You.   So I see the Line break button and I drag it to the measure but it doesn't move the measure it places a blue arrow icon above the measure, but it doesnt move the measure.
" I don't understand how to remove the "one" on the measure currently at the end of the system? "
Do I just click the barline on the end and press "delete"?   because that didn't work...
thanks again for your patients.

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 20:52:30 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Importing measure width from MusicXML

Questions like this are better asked in the support forum on musescore.org (see "Help / Ask for Help" from within MuseScore doesn't really have a a way of setting a fixed measure width, so there would be no way I can think of for any MusicXML tag that specifies this to be interpreted.  As for moving a meassure to the enxt line, that's easy enough - just add a line break before the measure (and remove the one on the measure currently at the end of the system, if there is one).

Marc

On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 8:47 PM thinkr <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry to revive an old thread but it pertains exactly to my questions...
Thanks for any help in advance:)

2 Questions.

1. Has the feature of measure length from xml import been implemented now in
2.0.

I noticed there are so many settings in the Measure Debugger is it in there?

2. I was writing some sheet music and would like to know if its possible to
have a setting to move a measure to the next line? While having the program
auto layout and reformat the rest of the music and move the down the line
until the measure fits?

It would be nice if this was a shortcut key.



--
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RE: Importing measure width from MusicXML

thinkr
In reply to this post by Marc Sabatella
I got it now it works! THANKS


Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 20:52:30 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Importing measure width from MusicXML

Questions like this are better asked in the support forum on musescore.org (see "Help / Ask for Help" from within MuseScore doesn't really have a a way of setting a fixed measure width, so there would be no way I can think of for any MusicXML tag that specifies this to be interpreted.  As for moving a meassure to the enxt line, that's easy enough - just add a line break before the measure (and remove the one on the measure currently at the end of the system, if there is one).

Marc

On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 8:47 PM thinkr <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry to revive an old thread but it pertains exactly to my questions...
Thanks for any help in advance:)

2 Questions.

1. Has the feature of measure length from xml import been implemented now in
2.0.

I noticed there are so many settings in the Measure Debugger is it in there?

2. I was writing some sheet music and would like to know if its possible to
have a setting to move a measure to the next line? While having the program
auto layout and reformat the rest of the music and move the down the line
until the measure fits?

It would be nice if this was a shortcut key.



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Re: Importing measure width from MusicXML

Marc Sabatella
Adding a break means break *after* that measure, just like it does in a word processor.  So add the break to the measure you want to *end* the line, not the one you want to *start* the line.,

For further questions on how to use MsueScore, again, please ask in the support forum.

On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 9:04 PM thinkr <[hidden email]> wrote:
I got it now it works! THANKS

Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2016 20:52:30 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Importing measure width from MusicXML



        Questions like this are better asked in the support forum on musescore.org (see "Help / Ask for Help" from within MuseScore doesn't really have a a way of setting a fixed measure width, so there would be no way I can think of for any MusicXML tag that specifies this to be interpreted.  As for moving a meassure to the enxt line, that's easy enough - just add a line break before the measure (and remove the one on the measure currently at the end of the system, if there is one).
Marc
On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 8:47 PM thinkr <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry to revive an old thread but it pertains exactly to my questions...

Thanks for any help in advance:)



2 Questions.



1. Has the feature of measure length from xml import been implemented now in

2.0.



I noticed there are so many settings in the Measure Debugger is it in there?



2. I was writing some sheet music and would like to know if its possible to

have a setting to move a measure to the next line? While having the program

auto layout and reformat the rest of the music and move the down the line

until the measure fits?



It would be nice if this was a shortcut key.







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