MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
13 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

cambiata
Hi Werner and others!

Being a free opensource competent multi-platform notation tool, MScore could become the perfect music education tool.

Some ideas:
- Functions for pedagogical coloring, marking and highlighting stuff (noteheads, chords, phrases)
- Functions for adding comments, textbaloons attached to stuff
- Tooltip-style textbubbles poping up when hovering a marked note
- Multi-version system where one file could contain several swappable versions. Example:
<museScores>
   <museScore originator="Adam Andersson">
   </museScore>
   <museScore originator="Bertil Bertilsson">
   </museScore>
</score>
Usful when I as a teacher want to give example of "your solution, compare with my solution"

Cheers! / Jonas



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

wschweer
Administrator
Ho Jonas,


On Mittwoch 09 April 2008, Cambiata wrote:
>
> Hi Werner and others!
>
> Being a free opensource competent multi-platform notation tool, MScore could
> become the perfect music education tool.
>
> Some ideas:
> - Functions for pedagogical coloring, marking and highlighting stuff
> (noteheads, chords, phrases)

most elements can already be colored but there are no schemas to for example
to color note heads depending on pitch.

> - Functions for adding comments, textbaloons attached to stuff

you can drag&drop arbitrary images (jpeg, png, xpm and svg) from konqueror
or firefox (thats what i tested) to the score. Double click the image and
then you can resize them dragging the grips.
(This is little tested and probably needs some debugging).

> - Tooltip-style textbubbles poping up when hovering a marked note

what infos do you want to see in the bubbles?

> - Multi-version system where one file could contain several swappable
> versions. Example:
> <museScores>
>    <museScore originator="Adam Andersson">
>    </museScore>
>    <museScore originator="Bertil Bertilsson">
>    </museScore>
> </score>
> Usful when I as a teacher want to give example of "your solution, compare
> with my solution"

whats the advantage of having two separate files?

Regards,
Werner


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

cambiata
Hi Werner!

The possibility to drag graphics into the score is superb! (Well, it doesn't seem to work right now in windows version - I get a small empty resizable frame with nothing in it...) Even better if those objects (as an alternative) could be snapped to notes (or other objects).

wschweer wrote
what infos do you want to see in the bubbles?
Attached a "screenshot" of pedagogically marked notes and phrases with tooltip-style comments. The display of these marks and comments should be toggable on/off, I think...

mscoreMarkers.jpg

Jonas
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

cambiata
In reply to this post by wschweer
Hi again!

wschweer wrote
whats the advantage of having two separate files?
1. That makes it easy to compare (see and listen to) different versions/solutions of the same example/exercise...
2. I can put use one version as "exercise" and one version as "solution"...

There are other future possibilities in the multi-score structure as well...
I really like the vertical frame concept (wich by the way could be used subclassed to a textblock placeholder variant - would be extremely handy.

A combination of multi-score structure and textblock vertical frames, and voila! The final music DTP tool! :-)
multiScoreDTP.jpg

Jonas
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

wschweer
Administrator
In reply to this post by cambiata
On Mittwoch 09 April 2008, Cambiata wrote:
>
> Hi Werner!
>
> The possibility to drag graphics into the score is superb! (Well, it doesn't
> seem to work right now in windows version - I get a small empty resizable
> frame with nothing in it...)

Ok, i never tested it under windows.

Even better if those objects (as an
> alternative) could be snapped to notes (or other objects).

Yes, this is a bit limited now. Graphics can be placed into boxes and into
score. In score it is anchored to a time position (and moves if the
layout changes).

>
>
> wschweer wrote:
> >
> > what infos do you want to see in the bubbles?
> >
>
> Attached a "screenshot" of pedagogically marked notes and phrases with
> tooltip-style comments. The display of these marks and comments should be
> toggable on/off, I think...

A set of editable graphic primitives (as in a vector graphics program),
which attach to one or more score elements could be usable for this.
Its on my TODO list.

Werner


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

wschweer
Administrator
In reply to this post by cambiata
On Mittwoch 09 April 2008, Cambiata wrote:

>
> Hi again!
>
>
> wschweer wrote:
> >
> > whats the advantage of having two separate files?
> >
>
> 1. That makes it easy to compare (see and listen to) different
> versions/solutions of the same example/exercise...
> 2. I can put use one version as "exercise" and one version as "solution"...
>
> There are other future possibilities in the multi-score structure as well...
> I really like the vertical frame concept (wich by the way could be used
> subclassed to a textblock placeholder variant - would be extremely handy.
>
> A combination of multi-score structure and textblock vertical frames, and
> voila! The final music DTP tool! :-)
> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16594728/multiScoreDTP.jpg multiScoreDTP.jpg

thats the plan!. But its a long way to go...

First use of these vertical textframes was to typeset a lyrics textblock
after the score. Horizontal frames are used to separate one or more codas.

I considered putting multiple scores into one file. This has several problems
and is not possible with current data structures. Its a feature i want to
have but its not easy to implement.

Youre sketches give a good impression how it could look.

Werner



-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

Luis Garrido-4
 textblock vertical frames, and
>  > voila! The final music DTP tool! :-)
>  > http://www.nabble.com/file/p16594728/multiScoreDTP.jpg multiScoreDTP.jpg
>
>  thats the plan!. But its a long way to go...
>

<delurks />

I think a more readily attainable goal in the short term would be
integrating mscore objects within open office documents. You can do
this already with lilypond:

http://ooolilypond.sourceforge.net/

Cheers,

Luis

<lurks />

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

cambiata
Hi Luis!

Luis Garrido-4 wrote
I think a more readily attainable goal in the short term would be
integrating mscore objects within open office documents.
Absolutely right!
I've started rewriting ooolilypond and I now have a basic version working on windows (at least).
museScoreInOpenOffice.png
Thats a very good solution for shorter clips. Drawbacks: it can't cope with page breaks, it can't playback etc...
If you're interrested I could send the code to you. Maybe this is a subject for a future Sourcforge project?

Jonas
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

wschweer
Administrator
On Mittwoch 09 April 2008, Cambiata wrote:

>
> Hi Luis!
>
>
> Luis Garrido-4 wrote:
> >
> > I think a more readily attainable goal in the short term would be
> > integrating mscore objects within open office documents.
> >
>
> Absolutely right!
> I've started rewriting ooolilypond and I now have a basic version working on
> windows (at least).
> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16596524/museScoreInOpenOffice.png
> museScoreInOpenOffice.png
> Thats a very good solution for shorter clips. Drawbacks: it can't cope with
> page breaks, it can't playback etc...
> If you're interrested I could send the code to you. Maybe this is a subject
> for a future Sourcforge project?
>
> Jonas

How does it work? Whats needed on the mscore side to support such a
solution?.

Looks like the ideal tool to write the MuseScore manual.

Werner




-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

Thomas Bonte
Administrator
In reply to this post by cambiata
Attached a "screenshot" of pedagogically marked notes and phrases with tooltip-style comments. The display of these marks and comments should be toggable on/off, I think...

mscoreMarkers.jpg
Hi Jonas,

Why not adding these annotation features to the Scorx app you made? This way, several people could make different annotations on the same sheet.

Just an idea.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

cambiata
In reply to this post by wschweer
wschweer wrote
How does it work? Whats needed on the mscore side to support such a
solution?.
Looks like the ideal tool to write the MuseScore manual.
Very simple:

It's an OpenOffice macro that (for each example) keeps track of both the embedded picture (png) and the code (msc xml).

The macro is activated with Ctrl+M wich pops up an dialoge box.
From that dialogue box I choose wich template msc to start working from, and press the Start MScore button. oooMuseScoreDialog.jpg

MScore is started (synchronously) with "tempMScore.msc" (renamed copy of the template msc) as parameter.

When finished editing, I save the file (Ctrl-S) and close MScore. The macro detects that MScore is released, and loads the "tempMScore.msc" data into the dialoge text field, runs MScore in command line mode with "mscore tempMScore.msc -o tempMScore.pdf" as parameter, resulting in a pdf of the page.

The pdf is converted to a png using ImageMagick convert (with -trim parameter to delete the unused "white" area of the page). "convert -trim -density " & iGraphicDPI & "  tempMScore.pdf tempMScore.png".

The resulting tempMScore.png is imported and automatically put in place in the document.

Whenever I want to edit the file, I select the music picutre by clicking on it, and activate the macro with Ctrl-M. The example code is loaded into the dialoguebox, and once more saved as "tempMScore.msc". Again, I press Start MScore button to continue editing the file...

I've adjusted the default template msc and ImageMagic conversion dpi to cause a MScore linebreak that fits the A4 page width of the office page.

Haven't tried in Ubuntu yet, but there's no reason why it shouldn't work, as far as the command line parameters are set right...

Regards / Jonas
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

cambiata
In reply to this post by Thomas Bonte
Thomas Bonte wrote
Why not adding these annotation features to the Scorx app you made? This way, several people could make different annotations on the same sheet.
Good idea...!
Well, what I really would like to be able to create (..!) is a online flash MuseScoreLight, working with the same xml format as MuseScore... This would be teorethically possible, I think, and maybe practically...

With no Qt4Flash in sight there's a hell lot of programming to do, and I'm not so very experienced in heavy MVC Actionscript stuff, and I've done almost no c++ programming (lots of Delphi including notation program), so there's a lot of work to make these ends meet...

But when it's there, there could be added a real-time Red5-driven streaming interface (video-conference), where the live-editable score example could be placed on a interactive white-board... So I could have my music theory classes from a sunny beach somewhere... :-)

That's well worth fighting for, isn't it..? :-)

Cheers and good night! / Jonas

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: MScore - the perfect music education tool...!?

Luis Garrido-4
>  Well, what I really would like to be able to create (..!) is a online flash
>  MuseScoreLight, working with the same xml format as MuseScore... This would
>  be teorethically possible, I think, and maybe practically...

For web purposes Java might be a better platform than Flash. Check out
for instance:

http://clef.cs.ubc.ca/salieri/nview/java/demo.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by the 2008 JavaOne(SM) Conference
Don't miss this year's exciting event. There's still time to save $100.
Use priority code J8TL2D2.
http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;198757673;13503038;p?http://java.sun.com/javaone
_______________________________________________
Mscore-developer mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mscore-developer