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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

CombatCube
Hi Brian,

I'm very interested in the work you're doing and I'm willing to contribute. I purchased a book on jianpu notation and I'm going to compile some references to compare with. It's looking great so far! I'd just like to recommend adding a few style options to perhaps improve the look of the score.

- Number font. Most of my reference material appears to use a sans-serif rather than serif font for numbers.

- Beam thickness and spacing. It appears a beam should be no thicker than a barline, and the distance between beams should be about 1/4 the height of a number.

- Octave change dot position. According to Wikipedia and my reference material, each note in a chord indeed has its own octave change dot(s), but the bottom note's dot(s) should go below the beam lines. This allows the beam lines to stay in the same position relative to the notes. I'm concerned that the inconsistency might be too jarring for seasoned players.

Seeing how good the score is looking, I suspect you'll be tweaking these numbers soon enough, and adding these options would be a logical next step. If you're too encumbered, I'd be happy to implement them myself when appropriate.

Keep it up!
CombatCube

On Dec 10, 2016 11:06 PM, "Brian Yan" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Staff line is removed and fillRect function is used to draw note/rest duration dashes.
See the snapshot of current implementation below.
Jianpu-4.png

Still, adjustment for ties and note positions in the chord are needed and other stuff like key signature, etc., need to be added.
 

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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

byan61
Hi CombatCube,

Thanks for your interest and you're welcome to contribute.

I know lower-octave dots are placed below the beam lines in the conventional Jianpu.
But still I prefer to have the octave dots right underneath the note number so that it's easier to read the note value and it's consistent with placement of octave dots for other notes in the same chord. We can keep the beams at the same distance from the notes by always keeping enough space for the octave dots between the note number and the beams.

IMHO, the maximum possible number of octave dots would be 4 or less for each direction, lower and upper.
I think the conventional Jianpu would stack the dots vertically.
But we can have all possible dots in 2 rows with 2 adjacent dots in a row, as follows (with each "o" representing a dot).
o o
o o

I am ok with adjustments on other things.

We have an issue page for adding Jianpu support in MuseScore at following location (issue #141581).
https://musescore.org/en/node/141581

You're welcome to add your compilation there.
BTW, where did you buy the Jianpu book? Is it in Chinese?

Regards,
Brian




On 12/11/2016 08:54 PM, Combat Cube wrote:
Hi Brian,

I'm very interested in the work you're doing and I'm willing to contribute. I purchased a book on jianpu notation and I'm going to compile some references to compare with. It's looking great so far! I'd just like to recommend adding a few style options to perhaps improve the look of the score.

- Number font. Most of my reference material appears to use a sans-serif rather than serif font for numbers.

- Beam thickness and spacing. It appears a beam should be no thicker than a barline, and the distance between beams should be about 1/4 the height of a number.

- Octave change dot position. According to Wikipedia and my reference material, each note in a chord indeed has its own octave change dot(s), but the bottom note's dot(s) should go below the beam lines. This allows the beam lines to stay in the same position relative to the notes. I'm concerned that the inconsistency might be too jarring for seasoned players.

Seeing how good the score is looking, I suspect you'll be tweaking these numbers soon enough, and adding these options would be a logical next step. If you're too encumbered, I'd be happy to implement them myself when appropriate.

Keep it up!
CombatCube

On Dec 10, 2016 11:06 PM, "Brian Yan" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Staff line is removed and fillRect function is used to draw note/rest duration dashes.
See the snapshot of current implementation below.
Jianpu-4.png

Still, adjustment for ties and note positions in the chord are needed and other stuff like key signature, etc., need to be added.
 

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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

CombatCube
I got the book from a Chinese bookstore, and indeed it is in Chinese. It teaches how to read jianpu (not write it) and contains a good amount of (albeit simple) example material. I am also currently learning Chinese, so it doubly serves as practice reading material.

I'm going to open up a forum thread about the octave change dots so we can get some other opinions on the matter. But for now, feel free to continue implementing it the way you proposed (I actually kind of like it).

Cheers,
CombatCube

On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Brian Yan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi CombatCube,

Thanks for your interest and you're welcome to contribute.

I know lower-octave dots are placed below the beam lines in the conventional Jianpu.
But still I prefer to have the octave dots right underneath the note number so that it's easier to read the note value and it's consistent with placement of octave dots for other notes in the same chord. We can keep the beams at the same distance from the notes by always keeping enough space for the octave dots between the note number and the beams.

IMHO, the maximum possible number of octave dots would be 4 or less for each direction, lower and upper.
I think the conventional Jianpu would stack the dots vertically.
But we can have all possible dots in 2 rows with 2 adjacent dots in a row, as follows (with each "o" representing a dot).
o o
o o

I am ok with adjustments on other things.

We have an issue page for adding Jianpu support in MuseScore at following location (issue #141581).
https://musescore.org/en/node/141581

You're welcome to add your compilation there.
BTW, where did you buy the Jianpu book? Is it in Chinese?

Regards,
Brian





On 12/11/2016 08:54 PM, Combat Cube wrote:
Hi Brian,

I'm very interested in the work you're doing and I'm willing to contribute. I purchased a book on jianpu notation and I'm going to compile some references to compare with. It's looking great so far! I'd just like to recommend adding a few style options to perhaps improve the look of the score.

- Number font. Most of my reference material appears to use a sans-serif rather than serif font for numbers.

- Beam thickness and spacing. It appears a beam should be no thicker than a barline, and the distance between beams should be about 1/4 the height of a number.

- Octave change dot position. According to Wikipedia and my reference material, each note in a chord indeed has its own octave change dot(s), but the bottom note's dot(s) should go below the beam lines. This allows the beam lines to stay in the same position relative to the notes. I'm concerned that the inconsistency might be too jarring for seasoned players.

Seeing how good the score is looking, I suspect you'll be tweaking these numbers soon enough, and adding these options would be a logical next step. If you're too encumbered, I'd be happy to implement them myself when appropriate.

Keep it up!
CombatCube

On Dec 10, 2016 11:06 PM, "Brian Yan" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Staff line is removed and fillRect function is used to draw note/rest duration dashes.
See the snapshot of current implementation below.
Jianpu-4.png

Still, adjustment for ties and note positions in the chord are needed and other stuff like key signature, etc., need to be added.
 

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Re: Support for 3JCN notation

lasconic
Administrator
Please stop spamming this list or I will have to block you.

Thanks
lasconic



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Re: Support for 3JCN notation

David Cuny
In reply to this post by CombatCube

> I'd really appreciate it if you guys could support 3JCN notation (http://www.3jcn.com)

I'm not sure how this managed to get a patent, as it's neither new, nor non-obvious. There's plenty of prior art using the {pitch class, octave, duration} tuplet to represent a note.

In any event, who would benefit by by adding patent-encumbered notation system into MuseScore?

-- David


On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Tom Ng <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'd really appreciate it if you guys could support 3JCN notation (http://www.3jcn.com)


Thomas




From: Combat Cube <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 12:07 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Mscore-developer] Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)
 
I got the book from a Chinese bookstore, and indeed it is in Chinese. It teaches how to read jianpu (not write it) and contains a good amount of (albeit simple) example material. I am also currently learning Chinese, so it doubly serves as practice reading material.

I'm going to open up a forum thread about the octave change dots so we can get some other opinions on the matter. But for now, feel free to continue implementing it the way you proposed (I actually kind of like it).

Cheers,
CombatCube

On Sun, Dec 11, 2016 at 9:22 PM, Brian Yan <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi CombatCube,

Thanks for your interest and you're welcome to contribute.

I know lower-octave dots are placed below the beam lines in the conventional Jianpu.
But still I prefer to have the octave dots right underneath the note number so that it's easier to read the note value and it's consistent with placement of octave dots for other notes in the same chord. We can keep the beams at the same distance from the notes by always keeping enough space for the octave dots between the note number and the beams.

IMHO, the maximum possible number of octave dots would be 4 or less for each direction, lower and upper.
I think the conventional Jianpu would stack the dots vertically.
But we can have all possible dots in 2 rows with 2 adjacent dots in a row, as follows (with each "o" representing a dot).
o o
o o

I am ok with adjustments on other things.

We have an issue page for adding Jianpu support in MuseScore at following location (issue #141581).
https://musescore.org/en/node/141581

You're welcome to add your compilation there.
BTW, where did you buy the Jianpu book? Is it in Chinese?

Regards,
Brian





On 12/11/2016 08:54 PM, Combat Cube wrote:
Hi Brian,

I'm very interested in the work you're doing and I'm willing to contribute. I purchased a book on jianpu notation and I'm going to compile some references to compare with. It's looking great so far! I'd just like to recommend adding a few style options to perhaps improve the look of the score.

- Number font. Most of my reference material appears to use a sans-serif rather than serif font for numbers.

- Beam thickness and spacing. It appears a beam should be no thicker than a barline, and the distance between beams should be about 1/4 the height of a number.

- Octave change dot position. According to Wikipedia and my reference material, each note in a chord indeed has its own octave change dot(s), but the bottom note's dot(s) should go below the beam lines. This allows the beam lines to stay in the same position relative to the notes. I'm concerned that the inconsistency might be too jarring for seasoned players.

Seeing how good the score is looking, I suspect you'll be tweaking these numbers soon enough, and adding these options would be a logical next step. If you're too encumbered, I'd be happy to implement them myself when appropriate.

Keep it up!
CombatCube

On Dec 10, 2016 11:06 PM, "Brian Yan" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Staff line is removed and fillRect function is used to draw note/rest duration dashes.
See the snapshot of current implementation below.
Jianpu-4.png

Still, adjustment for ties and note positions in the chord are needed and other stuff like key signature, etc., need to be added.
 

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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

byan61
In reply to this post by CombatCube
Thanks, CC.
Please forward the link to me when you have the forum thread started, so I can check it time to time.

Regards,
Brian


On 12/12/2016 02:07 AM, Combat Cube wrote:
I got the book from a Chinese bookstore, and indeed it is in Chinese. It teaches how to read jianpu (not write it) and contains a good amount of (albeit simple) example material. I am also currently learning Chinese, so it doubly serves as practice reading material.

I'm going to open up a forum thread about the octave change dots so we can get some other opinions on the matter. But for now, feel free to continue implementing it the way you proposed (I actually kind of like it).

Cheers,
CombatCube



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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

byan61
Hi Nicolas,

Current implementations of TAB and Jianpu is too intrusive to and too
coupled with Standard notation implementation.
It is kind of messy and mingled together, and it will be hard to
understand/maintain and extend functionality in the future.

I'm not trying to change everything overnight all at once.
I'd like to re-factor the code gradually for a better design. I do not
mean the existing design is bad.

For example:
Staff class has "StaffType _staffType;" and the StaffType class includes
configuration settings of all staff types (standard, TAB and now
Jianpu). So every staff object we have for individual staff always
contains unnecessary data structures that are not relevant to its staff
type.
We should have an interface class (or a common base class) StaffType and
derived classes like TabStaffType, JianpuStaffType, etc.
Probably I'll start by having a separate JianpuStaffType that derives
from StaffType, still using the existing StaffType.
Gradually we should move other stuff out of StaffType to corresponding
classes, i.e., TabStaffType, etc.

Also I'll try to start with separate JianpuNote and JianpuRest classes
as helper classes without deriving them from Note and Rest for now.

What do you think?

Regards,
Brian




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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

lasconic
Administrator
Hi,

First, the bad news. Werner, the MuseScore lead developer, is currently working on staff type. He is adding the possibility to change the type of a staff along the time axis. It means your changes and his changes will need to be merged.

Regarding StaffType, we used to have a hierarchy for the first implementation but Werner changed it to a single class because he saw no benefit. We don't have a lot of staff type object around and it's a small optimization. So I'm not sure it's very valuable to do that now You can probably add to StaffType for now and we can see how we can split later.

Regarding note and rest, we have a lot more of them and it would make more sense to have a hierarchy here. However, we choose to have information about fret etc... in a note, even in a standard staff, because it makes it easier to change from a standard staff to a tablature staff and keep these information. Still I feel it's a good idea and a possible optimisation, so it's fine to make JianpuNote and JianpuRest helpers, or even derive from Note/Rest.

Could you make a pull request with your current code? I will mark it work in progress and so Werner and I can follow your progress closer.

Thanks!
lasconic




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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

byan61
Hi lasconic,

I don't have much for the JianpuStaffType now, so I can just add it to
StaffType for now.
I'll make a pull request after I re-factor the code to separate
JianpuNote/JianpuRest classes.
I'm now using my local 141581-jianpu branch.
Do you want me to make a pull request to master or a branch like
141581-jianpu?

Regards,
Brian


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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

lasconic
Administrator
Hi,

A PR to master is good.

lasconic

2016-12-15 4:09 GMT+01:00 Brian Yan <[hidden email]>:
Hi lasconic,

I don't have much for the JianpuStaffType now, so I can just add it to
StaffType for now.
I'll make a pull request after I re-factor the code to separate
JianpuNote/JianpuRest classes.
I'm now using my local 141581-jianpu branch.
Do you want me to make a pull request to master or a branch like
141581-jianpu?

Regards,
Brian


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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

CombatCube
The forum link regarding octave dots can be found here: https://musescore.org/en/node/151831

On Wed, Dec 14, 2016 at 11:57 PM, Lasconic <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

A PR to master is good.

lasconic

2016-12-15 4:09 GMT+01:00 Brian Yan <[hidden email]>:
Hi lasconic,

I don't have much for the JianpuStaffType now, so I can just add it to
StaffType for now.
I'll make a pull request after I re-factor the code to separate
JianpuNote/JianpuRest classes.
I'm now using my local 141581-jianpu branch.
Do you want me to make a pull request to master or a branch like
141581-jianpu?

Regards,
Brian


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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

byan61
Thanks, CC.

I added new source files (jianpunote.cpp, jianpunote.h, jianpurest.cpp, jianpurest.h) in the libmscore directory.
I rebuilt the mscore using "make clean" and "make debug ...." but the build did not pick up the new files.
I am using Kubuntu Linux.
Can somebody point out what I might be missing?

-- Brian
 

On 12/19/2016 04:44 AM, Combat Cube wrote:
The forum link regarding octave dots can be found here: https://musescore.org/en/node/151831



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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

lasconic
Administrator
You need to add the files in the CMakeLists.txt file in libmscore.

lasconic

2016-12-20 7:04 GMT+01:00 Brian Yan <[hidden email]>:
Thanks, CC.

I added new source files (jianpunote.cpp, jianpunote.h, jianpurest.cpp, jianpurest.h) in the libmscore directory.
I rebuilt the mscore using "make clean" and "make debug ...." but the build did not pick up the new files.
I am using Kubuntu Linux.
Can somebody point out what I might be missing?

-- Brian

 

On 12/19/2016 04:44 AM, Combat Cube wrote:
The forum link regarding octave dots can be found here: https://musescore.org/en/node/151831



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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

Brian Yan
Update on progress:
I now have separate classes JianpuChord, JianpuNote, JianpuRest,
JianpuHook and JianpuBeam.
I'm now doing testing and debugging.
It will take a few or several more days to be ready for the pull request.

Regards,
Brian


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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

vgstef
That's really interesting. Looking forward for the pull request to see if Jianpu notation could be adapted for accordion/harmonica tablatures.

Stéphane



De : Brian Yan <[hidden email]>
À : "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Envoyé le : jeudi 29 décembre 2016 23h44
Objet : Re: [Mscore-developer] Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

Update on progress:
I now have separate classes JianpuChord, JianpuNote, JianpuRest,
JianpuHook and JianpuBeam.
I'm now doing testing and debugging.
It will take a few or several more days to be ready for the pull request.

Regards,
Brian


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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

lasconic
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In reply to this post by Brian Yan
Great ! make sure to get the last changes from master in your branch. It will make it easier to review and merge your work.

Keep up the good work !

lasconic

2016-12-30 5:44 GMT+01:00 Brian Yan <[hidden email]>:
Update on progress:
I now have separate classes JianpuChord, JianpuNote, JianpuRest,
JianpuHook and JianpuBeam.
I'm now doing testing and debugging.
It will take a few or several more days to be ready for the pull request.

Regards,
Brian


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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

byan61
Update:
One roadblock that prevents me from going further.
Somehow JianpuBeam::draw() does not get called and Jianpu beams do not
get drawn although JianpuBeam::layout() has been called.
I still could not find the root-cause or something that might be missing.
So the pull request will be delayed until this is resolved.

Regards,
Brian


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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

lasconic
Administrator
A bit of a shot in the dark, but make sure that your JianpuBeam is collected by "scanElements".

lasconic



2017-01-05 7:36 GMT+01:00 Brian Yan <[hidden email]>:
Update:
One roadblock that prevents me from going further.
Somehow JianpuBeam::draw() does not get called and Jianpu beams do not
get drawn although JianpuBeam::layout() has been called.
I still could not find the root-cause or something that might be missing.
So the pull request will be delayed until this is resolved.

Regards,
Brian


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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

Brian Yan
JianpuBeam is collected and inserted into BspTree by "scanElements".
But still JianpuBeam::draw() does not get called.
Probably something to do with settings of JianpuBeam bbox?


On 01/05/2017 02:42 AM, Lasconic wrote:
A bit of a shot in the dark, but make sure that your JianpuBeam is collected by "scanElements".

lasconic



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Re: Support for numbered notation (Jianpu)

byan61
Update:
The problem was with empty JianpuBeam bbox.
JianpuBeam is working beautifully now.
I'll merge the code changes with master branch and make the pull request in a couple of days.

Regards,
Brian


On 01/06/2017 03:01 AM, Brian Yan wrote:
JianpuBeam is collected and inserted into BspTree by "scanElements".
But still JianpuBeam::draw() does not get called.
Probably something to do with settings of JianpuBeam bbox?


On 01/05/2017 02:42 AM, Lasconic wrote:
A bit of a shot in the dark, but make sure that your JianpuBeam is collected by "scanElements".

lasconic




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